I first read travelfish in the thorntree Vietnam section. I found some great ideas there. Then for many years I got most of my accommodation options from the website. I would never have found, or considered many of my favourite places without travelfish reviews. I especially liked the ones out of the tourist areas and sometimes just in odd residential areas. And there were cities I went to simply because they were mentioned there. I think it taught me something about what to look for myself. I really missed it when I was, for years, travelling in China. Then this year I went to Malaysia and again found some terrific hotels, Crystal lodge in Kota Bharu and the wonderful Classic hotel in Kuantan, though a few were obviously a bit off their game or gone after years of closures. So I am grateful for your choices and hope you keep at least some. Thanks Stuart for your valuable website. As guidebooks cut back and seem not to properly update their entries, and generally confine themselves to places that are the most obvious and the most crowded, itks good to get something more.
Not too many tourists in Kuantan. There's not that much to do but it is a delightful city. The street that the Classic is in overlooks the river where there is a pleasant paved area for lovely evening walks and there were trees, and birds, out of the window. The cleaning staff are great and the floors glow. Of all the places I stayed in Malaysia, it was the most pleasant. I recently talked to a friend who has family in Malaysia and she raved about Kuantan. It's awkward to get to, because the main bus depot is so far from the city and local buses are now few and far between ( transport was really bad almost everywhere, with way fewer local buses running than any guidebook suggests),it's just a lovely place and a good hotel always helps.
Abbey by the river, in Ipoh, on the other hand was pretty rundown ( there was a hole in the floor in my room) with no one on reception a lot of the time, though they were nice people and helpful when they were there.
Thanks for sharing this, Stu. Your points all make very good sense. Only, I reckon travellers with limited experience might appreciate a couple of suggested itineraries (of course, depends on how much time/effort that requires on your end). Congrats to you and Sam for 19 years of Travelfish. Long may it continue!
Congratulations on 19 years! When I first discovered Travelfish in 2006, I saw this travel guide website as the natural evolution of the printed guidebook, because it was more nimble, responsive, and interactive. I think the real strength of Travelfish over the years was the sense of community, and how users could contribute not only through a vigorous travel forum, but also by posting trip reports and reviews of places, accommodation, restaurants, etc. I do think that the subject matter, even with the well-defined parameters that Travelfish established, is too massive to be properly addressed by just a core of even super dedicated administrators and research/writers, which is why I think it was important to include a variety of input from site users and freelancers, the latter group which may or may not include me.
In any case, I suspect that forward-looking efforts like Couchfish are the next natural evolution of travel guides, designed for people like me wanting to learn about the atmospherics of a place and hear first-hand recommendations so I can make decisions on where to travel next and how to construct a basic framework for the visit.
Thanks for what you've created to date and best wishes for the next 19 years. Cheers.
Congratulations on 19 years Stew and Sam from a 12 year long reader. Your comments about hotels and food are interesting because these are the two sections where I've found TF to be its most indispensable. As you said, there's no shortage of options on the various hotel booking websites each with useful filters. However, during the planning of our most recent trip to the region, I felt suffocated and paralysed this choice and I only wanted considered human curation and opinion! I would much rather a tight list of actually good places - whether that's on TF or elsewhere (bizarrely I've found the UK Telegraph to be good for this) where you know the author knows what they're talking about and they're not either a travel writer being paid off by the hotel or tourism board or a vapid influencer. The same goes for food, the sheer amount of reviews on google can translate to something quite useless and unreliable. A another tight list of recommendations is much more useful!
Yeah, I hear you on being bamboozled by the options, but then, consider that from a research point of view! 🤣 on a single street near where I live the number of “reviewable” properties has gone from 4 to around 40-ish--in under a decade, and that’s one road! I’m not suggesting that we’ll be removing food & accom completely, but our listing will be far more restrictive.
To use an example of somewhere I’m working on at the moment, for a town where we used to list 15 places to stay, the final cut will probably be three, so on one hand that’s not a great deal for readers, but on the other hand I’ve added an introductory section that covers the main areas one would typically stay in, and the pros and cons of each. For the reader for whom the three places don’t appeal, they can still use our guidance on which areas would work best for them, and hit the OTAs with a narrower focus on that area.
With food, is similar, but instead of districts, it’s rather specific dishes (for eg, or a food walk, or whatever) rather than listings.
It’s not a hard an fast rule, and will vary a bit depending on the context of the destination, but I’m hoping that eventually the product will be both more useful and financially feasible to research, even if that means the best way for a reader to use the site will be in conjunction with other sources--like the Tele as you mention. Will see how it shakes out, early days yet!
BTW In context of dropping hotel reviews in particular - Have you seen some of the flack LP is getting for changing its guidebook formats? Quite brutal.
Yes. It’s not totally unexpected. I’d talked to authors working to the new layout (it’s a lot less work, so while some were unconvinced on the new style, was an easier gig) and saw samples before they launched--first one I saw was WOAH, popcorn please. It’s a huge change, and all are moving to a four-year cycle as well I’ve heard, but I’m sure some of the reasoning is similar to mine. Think is inevitable--focus needs to change, tho, at least going on some of what I’ve seen, they’re not doubling down into sustainability/responsible travel etcetera as I am, and think, long term, that will be an error. Wait and see.
Jul 17, 2023·edited Jul 17, 2023Liked by Stuart McDonald
Will be interesting to see. As a reader of LP guides I’m a bit unconvinced. But at least they are there still publishing guidebooks - unlike so many others that have closed down. I remain a huge fan of the guidebook concept.
Interesting too that LP don’t seem to allow you to just buy specific chapters on the ebook front. Huge mistake in my opinion. I’d have happily paid decent £ for the Java/Bali chapters last summer but no way I was going to buy the whole guide to Indo.
They used to offer by chapter, not sure when that was removed. Agree a mistake. The guidebook concept still solid, just without accom, and to a large part, food listings. Researcher energy far better spent elsewhere imo.
Great read. It’s been so interesting to use TF over many years and watch from the sidelines as you’ve responded to the ever changing complexities of running a web-based business. It must be such hard work at times!
Massive congrats on still being here where so so many are sadly not.
Thanx Stuart. For all of the time and info. And especially for your integrity and educating us all toward more thoughtful reciprocal travel. I appreciate your efforts.
Given the collapse of social, you might not know that we shuttered The Statesider. It's not self-promotion of the publication is closed, right, so indulge me in saying I think you might find our takeaways overlap with your 19 lessons. And congrats on your longevity. How great is it to work on things that we learn from.
Hey Pam, oh no! Yes I totally missed that—I’m now spread across all social media like butter on toast, except for Musk-toast that is, screw that guy! Sorry to hear you’ve shuttered Statesider, and some very good points you make in the wrap post—when you get to Bali can commiserate over coffee. 👍🏻
Congratulation Stuart and Sam on keeping me informed and entertained for 19 years. You were there when I took my first tentative steps in SE Asia. And you are still there and true to your principles (which is like a breath of fresh air in the business of travel journalism). Keep it up!
I first read travelfish in the thorntree Vietnam section. I found some great ideas there. Then for many years I got most of my accommodation options from the website. I would never have found, or considered many of my favourite places without travelfish reviews. I especially liked the ones out of the tourist areas and sometimes just in odd residential areas. And there were cities I went to simply because they were mentioned there. I think it taught me something about what to look for myself. I really missed it when I was, for years, travelling in China. Then this year I went to Malaysia and again found some terrific hotels, Crystal lodge in Kota Bharu and the wonderful Classic hotel in Kuantan, though a few were obviously a bit off their game or gone after years of closures. So I am grateful for your choices and hope you keep at least some. Thanks Stuart for your valuable website. As guidebooks cut back and seem not to properly update their entries, and generally confine themselves to places that are the most obvious and the most crowded, itks good to get something more.
Thanks Violets. I reckon that’s the first love letter to Kuantan’s Classic hotel I’ve ever read! … it is still listed!
Not too many tourists in Kuantan. There's not that much to do but it is a delightful city. The street that the Classic is in overlooks the river where there is a pleasant paved area for lovely evening walks and there were trees, and birds, out of the window. The cleaning staff are great and the floors glow. Of all the places I stayed in Malaysia, it was the most pleasant. I recently talked to a friend who has family in Malaysia and she raved about Kuantan. It's awkward to get to, because the main bus depot is so far from the city and local buses are now few and far between ( transport was really bad almost everywhere, with way fewer local buses running than any guidebook suggests),it's just a lovely place and a good hotel always helps.
Abbey by the river, in Ipoh, on the other hand was pretty rundown ( there was a hole in the floor in my room) with no one on reception a lot of the time, though they were nice people and helpful when they were there.
Thanks for sharing this, Stu. Your points all make very good sense. Only, I reckon travellers with limited experience might appreciate a couple of suggested itineraries (of course, depends on how much time/effort that requires on your end). Congrats to you and Sam for 19 years of Travelfish. Long may it continue!
Thanks Gina! Oh we do have lots of itineraries, I just want to write more! Here is an epic example by David https://www.travelfish.org/trip_planner/thailand-north-andaman-coast
Congratulations on 19 years! When I first discovered Travelfish in 2006, I saw this travel guide website as the natural evolution of the printed guidebook, because it was more nimble, responsive, and interactive. I think the real strength of Travelfish over the years was the sense of community, and how users could contribute not only through a vigorous travel forum, but also by posting trip reports and reviews of places, accommodation, restaurants, etc. I do think that the subject matter, even with the well-defined parameters that Travelfish established, is too massive to be properly addressed by just a core of even super dedicated administrators and research/writers, which is why I think it was important to include a variety of input from site users and freelancers, the latter group which may or may not include me.
In any case, I suspect that forward-looking efforts like Couchfish are the next natural evolution of travel guides, designed for people like me wanting to learn about the atmospherics of a place and hear first-hand recommendations so I can make decisions on where to travel next and how to construct a basic framework for the visit.
Thanks for what you've created to date and best wishes for the next 19 years. Cheers.
Hey exacto thanks! Is that “next 19 years” but a challenge? 🤣🤣 Many thanks for your thoughts—not just now but over the years as well. 🙏🙏
This is a breath of fresh air.
Thanks Keith!
It’s so good to read such positive feedback. It gives me a certain “mummy” feeling :)
Indeed!
Congratulations on 19 years Stew and Sam from a 12 year long reader. Your comments about hotels and food are interesting because these are the two sections where I've found TF to be its most indispensable. As you said, there's no shortage of options on the various hotel booking websites each with useful filters. However, during the planning of our most recent trip to the region, I felt suffocated and paralysed this choice and I only wanted considered human curation and opinion! I would much rather a tight list of actually good places - whether that's on TF or elsewhere (bizarrely I've found the UK Telegraph to be good for this) where you know the author knows what they're talking about and they're not either a travel writer being paid off by the hotel or tourism board or a vapid influencer. The same goes for food, the sheer amount of reviews on google can translate to something quite useless and unreliable. A another tight list of recommendations is much more useful!
Thank you!
Yeah, I hear you on being bamboozled by the options, but then, consider that from a research point of view! 🤣 on a single street near where I live the number of “reviewable” properties has gone from 4 to around 40-ish--in under a decade, and that’s one road! I’m not suggesting that we’ll be removing food & accom completely, but our listing will be far more restrictive.
To use an example of somewhere I’m working on at the moment, for a town where we used to list 15 places to stay, the final cut will probably be three, so on one hand that’s not a great deal for readers, but on the other hand I’ve added an introductory section that covers the main areas one would typically stay in, and the pros and cons of each. For the reader for whom the three places don’t appeal, they can still use our guidance on which areas would work best for them, and hit the OTAs with a narrower focus on that area.
With food, is similar, but instead of districts, it’s rather specific dishes (for eg, or a food walk, or whatever) rather than listings.
It’s not a hard an fast rule, and will vary a bit depending on the context of the destination, but I’m hoping that eventually the product will be both more useful and financially feasible to research, even if that means the best way for a reader to use the site will be in conjunction with other sources--like the Tele as you mention. Will see how it shakes out, early days yet!
Thanks again for the dozen years of reading!
BTW In context of dropping hotel reviews in particular - Have you seen some of the flack LP is getting for changing its guidebook formats? Quite brutal.
Yes. It’s not totally unexpected. I’d talked to authors working to the new layout (it’s a lot less work, so while some were unconvinced on the new style, was an easier gig) and saw samples before they launched--first one I saw was WOAH, popcorn please. It’s a huge change, and all are moving to a four-year cycle as well I’ve heard, but I’m sure some of the reasoning is similar to mine. Think is inevitable--focus needs to change, tho, at least going on some of what I’ve seen, they’re not doubling down into sustainability/responsible travel etcetera as I am, and think, long term, that will be an error. Wait and see.
Will be interesting to see. As a reader of LP guides I’m a bit unconvinced. But at least they are there still publishing guidebooks - unlike so many others that have closed down. I remain a huge fan of the guidebook concept.
Interesting too that LP don’t seem to allow you to just buy specific chapters on the ebook front. Huge mistake in my opinion. I’d have happily paid decent £ for the Java/Bali chapters last summer but no way I was going to buy the whole guide to Indo.
They used to offer by chapter, not sure when that was removed. Agree a mistake. The guidebook concept still solid, just without accom, and to a large part, food listings. Researcher energy far better spent elsewhere imo.
Great read. It’s been so interesting to use TF over many years and watch from the sidelines as you’ve responded to the ever changing complexities of running a web-based business. It must be such hard work at times!
Massive congrats on still being here where so so many are sadly not.
Cheers, yeah a bit of work!
It’s great to read that you done so much for so long, and you’re still learning how to get better. Keep on trucking!
Thanks Dominic, that’s the thing about travel—always something new to learn.
Thanx Stuart. For all of the time and info. And especially for your integrity and educating us all toward more thoughtful reciprocal travel. I appreciate your efforts.
Welcome!
Given the collapse of social, you might not know that we shuttered The Statesider. It's not self-promotion of the publication is closed, right, so indulge me in saying I think you might find our takeaways overlap with your 19 lessons. And congrats on your longevity. How great is it to work on things that we learn from.
https://statesider.us/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-cake-or-pie/
Hey Pam, oh no! Yes I totally missed that—I’m now spread across all social media like butter on toast, except for Musk-toast that is, screw that guy! Sorry to hear you’ve shuttered Statesider, and some very good points you make in the wrap post—when you get to Bali can commiserate over coffee. 👍🏻
SOME DAY, Stuart, SOME DAY.
Congratulation Stuart and Sam on keeping me informed and entertained for 19 years. You were there when I took my first tentative steps in SE Asia. And you are still there and true to your principles (which is like a breath of fresh air in the business of travel journalism). Keep it up!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Thanks, much appreciated!